HomeMy WebLinkAboutMINUTES Town Board Informal Meeting 1998-09-24BRADFORD PUBLISHING CO.RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
SHORT TERM RENTALS
Informal Town Meeting - September 24, 1998
Attending:
Also Attending:
Mayor Dekker, Trustees Barker, Baudek,
Jeffrey, Marshall
Town Administrator Widmer, Sr. Planner
Joseph, Town Attorney White, Clerk O'Connor
Trustee Baudek called the meeting to order at 7:01 p.m. and
extended the Town's welcome. The Town Board is interested in
what citizens have to say on the subject of Short Term Rentals.
Purpose. For the public to express their views and ideas on
short term rentals, the Town Board will listen and later consider
some action. The audience was urged to keep in mind that any
ordinance passed would apply only to those residents within Town
limits. Everyone will be given an opportunity to express their
views, and staff will give each speaker the portable microphone.
If anyone prefers using the podium it is available, and notes of
this meeting will be recorded. Speakers are to give their name
and address, and if they are representing a homeowner's
association, the association should be named. No one should
speak a second time before all are given a first turn. Comments
should be limited to three minutes, and speakers and the audience
were encouraged to treat everyone with respect and courtesy.
After everyone has spoken a first time, anyone wishing to clarify
any points will be given another opportunity to speak.
Requesting speakers not repeat themselves. Trustee Baudek noted
the goal is to conclude by 9:00 p.m.; however, everyone,
regardless of the hour, will be allowed to speak.
George Hockman, 1625 Prospect Estates Dr. As he understands the
purpose of the original ordinance, the intent is to preserve the
quiet nature of residences/neighborhoods. He needs to know first
if an enforceable ordinance can be drafted; if not, the ordinance
would be useless. The Town Board should look at the best
solution for the community. Since most people reside in
residential areas, it appears reasonable to preserve their
neighborhoods if possible. The Town Board has received a letter
from Carole Harrison, 1751 Windcliff Dr., and she had interesting
ideas that should be considered: compromise in those areas which
might particularly satisfy various factions. Short term rentals
in residential areas be defined as vacation rentals with a
minimum of 6 consecutive nights—this would eliminate noise and
activity associated with moving in and out every day, traffic in
and out. The maximum number of renters permitted in a
condominiums or houses be limited by the number of bedrooms, with
2 people/bedroom, up to a maximum of 6 people/unit. The maximum
number of vehicles/rental unit be limited to 1 car/bedroom, with
a maximum of 3 vehicles. This idea would allow people that need
an income for rentals shorter than a one month rental to have
income and eliminate short term.
Terry Conley, 1309 Koral Crt. Concerned with property zoned E-
Estate, and he is President of the Koral Heights Homeowners Assn.
In Koral Heights, there are 67 homeowners with only one short
term rental property. When he purchased his property in 1983, he
believed he was protected against rentals, and he questioned what
protection is available to his association from the County. He
has discussed this issue with the County Commissioners and they
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suggested owners amend their covenants. Thus, their covenants
are being revised to prohibit short term rentals, and they are
granting a variance for the one existing short term rental site.
The Town Board and Larimer County are not being fair to property
owners in E-Estate zoning.
Gary Oliver, 1755 Dekker Cir. (20 yr. resident) . Mr. Oliver
expressed his appreciation to the Town Board for having the
meeting, and stated the issue is not about rentals, it is about
use. Whether property rented out for short term or whether a
family who lives out of state allows other family members,
friends, neighbors to use the property on a short term basis
creates the same problems residents are worried about. Short
term rental should not be allowed just because owners are
collecting revenue; what about without revenue, i.e.: heirs
inherit property and allow its free use. If use is restricted,
restrict reunions to a certain number of cars, etc.
Carol Bissell, 1884 Devils Gulch Rd. Her property is located in
Larimer County, zoned rural estate. The EVPC and County
Commissioners are following this issue carefully and will be
strongly influenced by Town Board action. This issue has been
publicly discussed on three occasions. Allowing short term
rentals is similar to allowing push cart vendors to sell their
wares in competition with merchants. When Town Attorney White
reviewed the law he advised that the definition of short term is
less than 30 days which is not allowed in certain zones, and he
added that the Town has a real problem as the current Code is not
being enforced. Ms. Bissell is the Past President of the North
End Homeowner's Assn, and with one exception, when residents were
surveyed, everyone else was adamant that they did not want
commercial activity in a residential area. Residents will fight
to defend their property rights, not based on renters being "bad
folks", nor are short term "disasters", but if there are a few
rentals, there is reason to believe there will be more, plus
potential Bed and Breakfasts—all of these instances change the
nature of neighborhoods. Ms. Bissell related a friend's
experience in Town with property that is not zoned for short term
rental and a neighbor rents short term. The friend will not
speak out even though she is asked to turn-on the heat in the
house for guests, and the owners do not landscape, and the
opportunity to get to know neighbors is lost. Turning a
neighborhood into a commercial zone is not in the long term
interest of Estes Park.
Patrick Cipolla, 632 Aspen Ave. If the Town decides to issue
business licenses to short term rentals, the name and address
should be reported to the County to establish a level playing
field with "mom/pop" motel owners. If property owners are paying
a 29% tax rate for motels, and short term rental property owners
are taxed at 9%, this is unfair; both should be taxed at 29%.
Leonard Schmidt, 1010 St. St. Vrain. Member of the Eagles
Landing Homeowners Assn. Questioned whether condominiums are
included in short term rentals. Trustee Baudek responded in the
affirmative.
Dominick Taddonio, resides in a residential area outside Town
limits. A packet containing ads and other information concerning
rentals in Windcliff Estates was presented to each Board member.
He reminded the Board that the ordinance presented to them is a
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prefacing statement that could be used as a precedent for an
application throughout the whole valley. Mr. Taddonio emphasized
he was attending as a private citizen and homeowner. In a
September 18th Trail Gazette article, statements embodied what
this issue is not about. It is not about intolerance and
irrationality, where a minority of homeowners are trying to make
the rules for everyone. Elected officials make up the rules for
the majority. Short term rentals are a violation of property
rights, and they should be restricted. On use that is well
established, property owners cannot be deprived without just
compensation. The issue is about harmonious development in
heath, safety and general welfare of all the people. To promote
harmonious development municipal development codes and uses are
implemented. Why the Town would not allow a hog farm near the
Trail Gazette even though it would bring in taxes is due to
zoning districts. The Zoning Code Statement of Purpose was read
aloud. In his community, 1 out of 3 residents are strangers where
conferences, receptions, beer parties, etc. occur. The mountains
are used for repelling practice, there are fireworks displays,
dangerous drivers unfamiliar with mountain driving, and more.
Intrusions are not limited to Windcliff renters. At the Planning
Commission meeting February 17th, a neighboring property owner
stated he often hears noise from renters in the Windcliff area
and incidents can make life miserable. Those defending rentals
in prohibited areas because rentals have always been there, etc.,
and that revenue is needed to pay for a mortgage, these may be
personal concerns, how are they justified to the rest of the
community. Some people have referred to the opponents as
intolerant, saying they lack empathy, however, the County has had
a restriction on their books a long time. In 1989, transient
was defined as one who rented for less than 30 days, and all knew
the intent of the ordinance. At a 1/26/94 EVIA forum for E-
Estate rentals, Messrs. Dement and Garrett supported rentals and
asked the ordinance be stricken or lowered. Why would these
persons request a change if they didn't think they were breaking
the law—who is destroying harmonious development. He is not
talking trivia here, the intrusions are full blown commercial,
tied to real estate brokerage. A loophole has been discovered in
the preparation of the existing Town ordinance. Everyone knows
the intent and the ordinance should be fixed; perhaps the
ordinance should be written to grandfather for 3-7 years.
Although valid questions have been raised on enforcement and
defense, they should not limit consideration on rentals. The
Town Board should be compelled to do what is right considering
all citizens and harmonious development. The Town should
consider their actions, control by complaint basis will pit one
neighbor against another. Valley residents will eventually
outnumber Town residents by 2/1, and he urged the Town not to
adopt the proposed ordinance, and if it is rewritten, grandfather
only if need be. The Town should arrange a supervised vote
specifying conditions and let the chips fall where they may. It
is incongruous to maintain E-Estate with short term rentals.
Cindy Oliver, 1755 Dekker Circle, 20 year resident. She owns a
motel business, and they have rentals off the motel property.
They have found that people who want homes don't want to stay in
a motel. With one rental property, they use it approximately
one-third of the time for friends and family, and these guests
have been accosted by neighborhood residents. How will the Town
enforce short term rentals when the site is being used for family
use. She agrees this is a use issue, it is impossible to
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enforce, and the ordinance won't allow family use. Concerning
fireworks and repelling, these incidents could be anybody's
grandkids. The property owner is responsible, if there is a
problem, they want to know about it. Their guests are screened,
and their guests have not caused any problems. Can the Town say
it is better to rent thirty days v. one week—is this
constitutionally correct? From a constitutional rights stance,
it doesn't sound right to her. She does understand the
homeowners and neighborhood concerns, and she believes there
needs to be communication between them on how best to resolve
these concerns. Ms. Oliver also commented on different methods
property owners could utilize to continue their rental business.
This is an Estes Valley decision, and she stressed that hopefully
all can join together to solve this problem.
Craig Stephens, 1581 Zermott Trail, part-time resident. He was
in the rent pool at Windcliff for 17 years, and now owns a home
in this subdivision. He has looked at short term rentals
internally and polled the membership—they do not object to
rentals. Windcliff residents view Estes Park as a fun, quiet
place, and they are a year-round fragment of the entire
population. Out of 95 homes, there are only 25-26 in the rental
pool. He has seventeen years of rental experience here and the
average rental is for 17 weeks, they are not year-round rentals.
Rentals make such operations economically feasible. The quality
of renters is very high, and there is virtually no property
damage. He does recognize the use issue; however, short term
rentals are very popular in the valley. There is a shortage of
rooms with approximately 200,000 visitors, and there aren't
enough motels. Windcliff has a rental history of 25 years, and
he was not personally aware that rentals in E-Estate were a
problem; grandfathering is appropriate.
Wade Whilden, part-time Windcliff resident. Short term rental is
a use issue. The rental business is important to the community-
many people come here to rent homes and they don't want a motel.
He first came to Estes Park in 1949, and through the years, he
and his family purchased a home here. Regarding Mr. Taddonio's
comments regarding repelling and fireworks, full-time residents
may be doing the same thing; but when renters are involved, there
should be stringent controls. Approximately 80% of the owners
responded to a poll, and 80% supported rentals. Windcliff owners
are proud of their community, and they know their neighbors. On
the economic issue, if there are 1,600 rental weeks x 7 days =
11,200 days. If there are five people/party = 56,000 people. If
they average spending $100/person, it equates to more than $5.5
Million to this economy. Testimony offered today was good; the
ordinance is a compromise, and it is fair and can be defended.
Regarding covenants, if homeowners don't like the ordinance as
passed and if they want more stringent restrictions, they can do
so in their own neighborhoods. Mr. Whilden encouraged the
County to do what the Town Board does to eliminate any
distinction between both entities. He opposes grandfathering as
it doesn't solve the problem, and creates another status—it leads
towards a solution that he thinks is wrong. Most people came to
Estes Park as renters, and stringent control on short term
rentals may drive people who want homes here to other
communities. Rental brings the type of people to Estes we want,
not people who like to go to Aspen, Vail. The Trail Gazette
editorials were well thought out, identifying that rentals are a
basic property right issue, and he urged the Town to let people
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use their property, and if they are not offending neighbors, let
them go. The Ordinance is fair.
Murial Ream, 671 Heinz Parkway. There are only three property
owners that rent in her area. One of those will loose his
property if he can't rent it, and other than 1997, there were no
problems resulting from renters this year.
Bart Schmidt, 321 Big Horn Dr., President/Lewiston Condominiums.
People rent short and long term, and his Association has adopted
stringent rules to govern use. Their rules cover cars, people,
and the amount of rental time. A rental period minimiam is one
week, if the period is lessened, the party is gone before any
complaints can be addressed. The Association does have some
problem with short term rentals, however, they are few and far
between. Owners must sign a form that they have read the rules
and that they will follow them. Third-party rental agents are a
problem as they are not concerned with their rules. They have
found that out of state owners who utilize property managers
don't necessarily take care of the property as an owner would.
Bob Mussman/Sunnyside Knoll Resort. From a resort owner's
standpoint, how is a business allowed in E-Estate. Additionally,
if people operate a business, many things should happen so there
is a level playing field: utility rates, taxes, mortgage rates,
interest rates, etc. Is it illegal to sign a mortgage and use
the property for commercial purposes? Mr. Mussman urged the Town
Board to make everything more equal.
Brian Mitchner, 2332 Mountainside Dr. He is a County resident
who has rented long-term for over 20 years and in his experience,
short term rentals require a presence—absentee owners or
managers are otherwise unavailable if a problem arises.
Homeowner's rights should be respected when people buy a home
where short tern rentals was not permitted—it is a matter of
integrity. Down-zoning, tax evasion, insufficient amount of low-
cost housing for employees were also mentioned. Vail and other
municipalities require developers to provide 20% of their project
for employee housing, this creates a harmonious community. The
Town should create a model to be proud of for the entire valley
and not make it worse. Agreed that Carole Harrison did have some
good suggestions. Associations are limited in what they can
enforce, this is a Town responsibility.
John Hiatt, 3254 Eaglecliff Dr., Windcliff. He is a former
renter, and has been a permanent resident for the past three
years. During his rental period, he appreciated the experience
of his neighborhood, and he would not be a property owner if not
for short term rental. He never experienced negative incidents,
and he urged the Board to continue with some sort of short term
rental.
Ursula Scott, 560 Larkspur Rd., High Dr. She is an absentee
property owner who utilizes a rental agent. With rental income,
she has been able to preserve a rustic cabin which serves as an
example of Estes Park's former characteristic era of the 30's.
Trustee Baudek announced a 5-minute break at 8:06 p.m.
The meeting was reconvened at 8:10 p.m.
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Leonard Schmidt, Eagles Landing Assn. He lives in a condominium
and these owners have different problems then homeowners. Due to
the structure at Eagles Landing, they invite very short term
rentals. Recently, an apartment was rented to too many people
and a pet, this created problems with vehicles. Mr. Schmidt
encouraged a condominiiim rental limit of one month.
Additionally, the ordinance should contain language that makes
the rental agent responsible.
Vicky Holler, 384 Park View Ln. They own long term rental
property and they have as many problems with long term rentals as
residents are experiencing with short term. If short term
rentals are not allowed, this will create a problem for people
who can't afford to be here otherwise. It is unfair to take
private property rights. Caldwell Banker handles both short and
long term rentals.
Patty Taylor Czarnowski, 2180 Blue Spruce Dr. In fairness of E-
Estate property owners, they have property rights too. These
residents don't expect a business next to them, and property
owners who are renting their homes aren't paying the same taxes
as commercial. What are property rights worth.
Carol Bissell. She has heard testimony for the need of rental
property in Estes Park, and perhaps trends are changing and maybe
people want homes in lieu of motel rooms. Accommodations on Fall
River Rd. are addressing that need. Tiny Town could have bigger
cabins and rent. With commercial loans, why is there a need to
bend the rules to help pay a mortgage. Estes Park is both a
resort and real Town with real people living here year around.
There are benefits from both. People will move here and will
find homes even if they don't get special breaks. Rental
property owners should pay the same taxes, and vote in their area
to allow—why compete with accommodations when not on the same
basis.
Cindy Oliver/Brynwood on the River. Reiterated that some people
don't want a motel, they want a vacation home. If they don't get
a home from her, they will go to another Town. If have weekly
rentals, renters can be told to leave if there is a problem,
they're gone that night.
Terry Conley. Commended everyone for listening to all comments.
Is there a valley-wide solution? In his Association, there is
only 1 out of 67 homes that is rented, and Windcliff residents
have reported that Windcliff has been renting for 25 years;
perhaps residents are afraid of the unknown, and also believe the
County let them down. If there is any solution, it should
include a 24 hr. rental agent available for problems.
Wade Whilden. He agrees, a local contact is important, employee
elimination of short term rentals will hurt the economy, families
do want homes not motel rooms as travel patterns have changed and
few travelers take a month vacation now. Concerning mortgage
rules, previous testimony is not correct—when a mortgage is
obtained, there are no rules against renting the property, and
property owners are not breaking the law by renting their homes.
Dominick Taddonio. During this meeting, people have missed the
point. The audience is forgetting that people also come here to
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live in residential areas, zoned E-Estate or higher who
understand that permitted uses don't include transient type of
rentals and they deserve protection. Areas can rezone to become
accommodations, but E-Estate should be left unfettered.
Lynere Whilden, Windcliff. Every person that lives in Windcliff
bought their property when rentals were in effect, and Windcliff
has had rentals for 25 years.
Jim Czarnowski, 2180 Blue Spruce. This issue is important even
though it may not be the largest problem in Town. Good
government protects the rights of the people and not special
interest. It is illogical to allow commercial use in residential
areas. Government must do a good job to see what was originally
intended is enforced.
Bob McCreery, 2725 Devils Gulch Rd./North End Association
President. In his rental property experience in Hawaii, the
owner must have a manager even if the home is not rented year-
round. A local person must be accountable, and the manger is
perhaps more responsible than the owner, particularly if the
owner is absent. Problems could be resolved with a responsible
manager on a 24 hr. basis. His family began renting cottages in
the 20's. With current zoning, he is comfortable with the
situation and prefers not having short term rentals in the area.
People should obey zoning regulations currently in effect. If
short term rentals are desired, zoning should be changed. People
should obey the law as it stands.
Town Attorney White clarified the Town's position on short term
rentals. The term short term rentals was never mentioned when
the Town Zoning Code was adopted in 1986, therefore, it was not
drafted into the Code. The Town did not err as this subject was
not then an issue. Mr. Taddonio is incorrect in his statement to
the contrary.
As there were no further comments. Trustee Baudek extended his
appreciation to the audience for the courtesy they extended, and
is hopeful many questions were answered.
The meeting adjourned at 8:33 p.m.
Vickie O'Connor, CMC/AAE, Town Clerk